Guiding Your Family toward Emotional Health episode 3 transcript
Irv Tang: [00:00:00] My mom actually was quite different. She actually was pretty abusive to my dad, yelling at him almost every day. And I saw that in my dad where he just really didn't say anything, never once raised his voice. And for me, that seemed that's him being pretty strong and patient. So for me growing up, I was the same way. I really just kept an even keel really didn't share any emotions. And it took me many years to be able to share my emotions.
John Yoder: Greetings everybody! Pastor John Yoder here. Welcome back to our series “Guiding Your Family towards Emotional Health.” I'm so glad you've chosen to join us again.
Now, in the first two episodes, you were very patient, and you listened to me as a solo presenter. Today, I want to introduce you to four marvelous Christian counselors. Of these four, [00:01:00] two are Latino, one is Chinese, and one is Caucasian. Two are men. Two are women. Some of them are licensed practitioners and others are biblical counselors. But they have one voice agreeing that the Bible is truth, it is our final standard of authority, and that we want to guide all of God's people towards emotional health.
These four will be sharing with us this episode and next. And in weeks to come, I will be introducing you to other Christian counselors as we dive into specific issues like depression, anxiety, social media, pornography, and more.
Just a quick review. In episode one, what I shared with you is that many people who move to the United States from around the world have no history of counseling in their homelands. Very few people seek counselors, and when they come here, they're not used to it. So what we [00:02:00] want to do in this series, we want to simplify Christian counseling. We want to make it easy for people to get a point of entry, just to understand what it is.
Then, in episode 2, I shared with us why we need both professionally trained and lay counselors. There is a time for psychotherapy, for someone to sit down with a person who is a professionally trained and licensed counselor. But there is also a place for the average person who knows a lot about emotional health to simply share with others. I am not a trained counselor. I am a trained and licensed pastor, but I know a lot about emotional health. It is our goal that every Christian would learn a lot about emotional health, so that all of us can help each other as we struggle with issues in our lives.
The title of today's episode is “Out of Silence Into Strength: Finding the Courage to Address Emotional Pain.” Again, it's “Out of Silence Into Strength.”
In many cultures around the world people are very hesitant to talk about sin or scandals in their family's past. Maybe there's been an addiction. Maybe there was a child out of wedlock. There was physical violence. There was sexual abuse. Many people don't want to talk about it. It's shameful. It's uncomfortable. It makes the family look bad. And many believe that the strong person is the one who bottles it up inside and never talks about it.
But our counselors today want to share with you that the opposite is true. The weak person is the one who keeps it bottled up inside. The strong person is the person who has the courage to sit down with one trusted person, or a small group of trusted people, and shares with them the pain that they are feeling so that they can push through into forgiveness and into healing.[00:04:00]
Because our four presenters today are from two cultures that tend to be shame-based and not want to talk about problems. They are from Latino and Asian cultures. They get why people from their homelands don't want to open up and talk. But as Christian counselors, they have learned the skill of helping draw people out. So let's learn from them today.
I'm going to allow these counselors to introduce themselves to you one by one, and the first is Gisela Arias.
Gisella Arias: My name is Gisela Arias Olson and I am a immigrant raised and born in Costa Rica and lived in different countries of Latin America, like Mexico, Guatemala, Republica Dominicana.
I'm living here in Minnesota for the past 25 years. A mom of two, 29 years old and 19 years old, and married for 32 [00:05:00] years. And I am a clinical psychologist, family therapist, and I am a pastor in the Latino community.
John Yoder: The next counselor that will introduce herself is Michelle Frauenshuh. And I've got to be really honest with you that I'm always pleased to introduce to anyone an American who's lived in China for a period of time like myself, who understands the thinking, the mindset of the Chinese people, and who speaks some very good Mandarin.
Michelle Frauenshuh: My name is Michelle Frauenshuh, and I am the owner of Life Development Resources. I have been in clinical practice as a marriage and family therapist for over 25 years. I have spent my career specializing in trauma across the lifespan. I have lots of additional specialized training in that. I also have done a lot of work with high need kids and adolescents. [00:06:00] I have worked in chemical dependency. I've crossed the gamut in my career.
I did live in China, and I have studied Chinese for many years, and actually am the only dominant culture person in my dearest friend group. So I actually operate within the Asian community here in Minnesota more so than in the Western community.
John Yoder: You've already heard a little bit of Irv Tang's testimony at the beginning of this podcast, and now I'll let him introduce himself.
Irv Tang: My name is Irv Tang, and I am a second generation. My parents are both from mainland China, my mom from Shanghai, and my father was born in the Hunan province.
My dad actually escaped from communist China, probably in the early 1950s, settled here, came over to the US, again being a [00:07:00] child of two parents, both from mainland China. Yeah, we didn't really speak much about feelings or emotions.
Really the, I think the goal for the children was to not to shame the family name study hard work hard and really do well in the community. But unfortunately we didn't really have much as far as conversations about feelings and emotions. I would say that I'm a conflict avoider and my dad was like that and my dad never showed any emotions.
My mom actually was quite different. She wanted to raise all the kids to study Chinese, play an instrument, really pushed hard for each of the children, her children to really be successful. And she actually was pretty abusive to my dad, yelling at him almost every day. And I saw that in my dad where [00:08:00] he just really didn't say anything, never once raised his voice. And for me that seemed that's him being pretty strong and patient.
So for me growing up, I was the same way. I really just kept an even keel, really didn't share any emotions and taking that into my marriage with my wife, Nancy. She was also a conflict avoider. And unfortunately, that really was very detrimental to our marriage, because we would go months and months, we'd have probably disagreements and arguments just really weren't able to communicate in really a godly and biblical manner.
And what would happen is then we'd have a big blow up, maybe six or seven months after an incident, and the blow up would happen over something very small. Just through that process, and I think where we came to a head in our own marriage. We actually were separated, and during that time of [00:09:00] separation, we were separated early on in our marriage. In fact, a couple years into our marriage, got back together again, and we were pretty much coasting along.
And then we also had just a crossroads, this happened about ten years ago, where we were actually separated again. But through Christian counseling the counselor helped us really talk about our emotions and feelings and to bring those up, and not try to hide them, but really to share them.
And we went through a lot of hard conversations, a lot of openness and honesty, and even had a chance to, work on forgiveness and bitterness from the past. I think through the process, it took me many years to be able to share my emotions. I would say it's even hard now to express my feelings because I tend to still want to hide and I think it's a sign of weakness. But it actually is. It's a sign of growth and maturity.
John Yoder: The last person that I'd like you to meet today is Moses Saldivar. [00:10:00] He's a second generation Mexican American. Like me, he is not a licensed therapist, but he is a pastoral counselor, and he has dealt with many different issues in the Latin American community, and he's going to share part of his story with you.
Moses Saldivar: I grew up as the oldest child in my family. I grew up in a home where my teenage years, early teenage years and through high school where some unhealthy rhythms were happening in my family. And really, my parents ended up separating and then eventually divorcing.
And as the oldest and as a Latino male, you have a different place and the hierarchy of the family. So if dad's not there, now you have that responsibility to care not only for your siblings, but also for your mother. And so what that does in many ways, it puts you in a situation where you feel like you have to grow up a lot sooner, you start carrying a lot of these burdens, and then you start [00:11:00] repressing a lot of the things that you're feeling.
So that you can give a sense of stability to your family and to those that you love and to be able to convey a sense that things are going to be okay. Even though inside, it may not feel like things are going to be okay.
John Yoder: Pastor Moses is very open that Latino culture, like many Asian cultures, is shame-based and therefore often not open to talking about emotional issues.
Moses Saldivar: I think one of the things to keep in mind with Hispanic Latino cultures is that we are probably more honor-shame as far as our mentality and how we approach things. And so there can be a mindset that by engaging in counseling, there's something wrong with you and broke within you. And by having those types of conversations it feels shameful.
And so we don't generally like to have those [00:12:00] conversations. In many ways we, in Hispanic Latino cultures, we grow up repressing a lot of those feelings. I think the thing that I love about even my heritage is that we are very much, . I feel like it is a “can do” culture. And we feel like, honestly, because we've grown up with generally a lot less, that suffering is just a part of the deal.
And so what we'll say is, if we are going through a rough patch or whatever, That's just normal. Get up and get to work, whatever it may be, or just press in or do the thing.
So there's not much of an openness to that. And because of that, what is a manifest in some very unhealthy ways to where the way that we engage with others our family dynamics and sometimes can really be impacted in very negative and unhealthy ways. And then it just spreads out from there or goes out from there.
But there definitely is a huge hesitancy to engage in anything that revolves around mental health at all, or that, that's even a [00:13:00] conversation to have.
John Yoder: Pastor Moses is very clear to his fellow Latinos and to others that even though culturally we might not be ready to talk about things that feel shameful, it is always right to seek help and to deal with emotional issues in our lives.
Moses Saldivar: There's no shame in asking for help. There's no shame in asking for folks to help you navigate those conversations. And I would also say there's wisdom in not navigating those things alone. You don't want to navigate those things by yourself. So there's wisdom and having people walk with you as you're walking with your children.
John Yoder: Many of you listening in are starting to warm up to the idea that you need to share about your emotions with somebody else. But the role of a counselor is new to you because people really didn't do that back in your homeland.
There is a role that many of you understand. For some people who [00:14:00] come from a very communal society, they will have a tribal elder. Somebody that they look up to for wisdom and guidance. And even people who come from large cities around the world have extended family--grandparents, aunties, uncles, or maybe even pastors. People that they look up to for guidance.
Now that you've come to the United States. You are separated from that community. You are not living among all the grandparents, aunties, uncles, the church, the tribal elders that helped you sort life, and you are more tasked with raising your children on your own. Michelle shares with us how part of her role as a counselor is actually filling the role of a tribal elder.
Michelle Frauenshuh: So how I've communicated my job over the years when I'm working with immigrant communities is in the [00:15:00] United States, because we are an individualistic society which I'm not, frankly, a huge fan of. We do not have the equivalent of a village elder. And our family systems are not structured in a way where elders are respected in the same way.
And so one of the not-so-great things about being in the United States is that you have to pay people for roles that would normally just be met within your community in your country of origin. And so I am simply no different than the village elder that maybe you might bring a lovely meal or support in some other way as they help you navigate problems. And here in the United States, we just use insurance.
I think that is a very important lens that I look at my work [00:16:00] through whether I am working with a family that are maybe a more recent arrival here in the United States, or even when I'm working with my Western families, because I think that the inclusivity of having a village support a family is so much more helpful and healthy than just going it alone in life.
John Yoder: For all of you listening in, and you feel isolated, you feel cut off, you are not with those extended family that were with you in your homeland, reach out to someone who can fill that role for you. Please remember, not every therapist believes in the Word of God. Not every pastor understands emotional health. So you need to find people who love the Lord and embrace emotional health. But when you do, they can be invaluable to you.
Right now, Pastor Moses [00:17:00] has a closing exhortation for us. And that is that many of you grew up in a home where your parents did not handle emotions in a healthy way. And his exhortation is this: Deal with the issues of your past. Give to your children a healthier environment growing up than you had.
Moses Saldivar: Either you will disciple your children, or the world will. That cycle can stop with us. It's by the grace of God that my children have never had to experience a lot of the things that I had to experience as a child. And I don't say that to speak negatively my parents. The reality of it is that there was a lot of brokenness and sin and things mixed up in all of that was feeding that. But it was the freedom that I found in Jesus that I was able to say, Okay, for my children, it's not going to be that way.
John Yoder: So there you have it, folks. I [00:18:00] hope that you were really blessed and encouraged by what you heard today, and I hope that you have come to the place of understanding that it is a godly and right thing to do to face the emotions of our past and our present.
Now, many of you might say, John, I get it. I am in, we ought to do that, but I don't know where to start. I don't know any counselors, not a professional counselor, not even a pastoral counselor. And many of you would ask, Is there one in my city? Do they speak my language? Can I afford them? And most importantly, how do I know that they line up with my Christian values? Next episode, these same four counselors are returning, and they are going to address that very question, how to find and how to interview somebody near you.
Before we come together next time, I want to let you know about a resource that can help you find counseling [00:19:00] resources near you. It's at www.immigrantministry.com/nationwide.
And it includes a directory of Christian counselors across North America. Not only that, but it has other resources for immigrants as well: financial resources, legal resources, learning English resources, Christian resources, and directories by state. Whether you're in Texas, California, Maine, wherever you live, it will list ministries serving immigrants near you. Once again, that's www.immigrantministry.com/nationwide.
So next time, our same four counselors will return and talk about how to find and interview a counselor near you. And in weeks to come I will introduce you to even more marvelous Christian counselors as we begin to dive into individual issues like depression, anxiety, social media, pornography, and more. I'll see you then.
